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Subject: SPACE Digest V11 #248

SPACE Digest                                     Volume 11 : Issue 248

Today's Topics:
              release of images
            Re: HST Images (long)
            Re: HST Images (long)
               Re: Velikovsky's Theory
            Re: orbit definitions
            Re: HST Images (long)
            Re: Galileo Update - 04/10/90
   Re: "Brilliant Pebbles" vs. "Smart Rocks" (was Re: Railgun ...)
              Apollo Astronauts
            Re: HST Images (long)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 10 Apr 90 18:08:39 GMT
From: [e-mail]  (Eugene Miya)
Subject: release of images

I do not come to praise NASA, I come to ... (oh, that was Caesar)....

First, I ENCOURAGE you to write letters, BUT, I suggest that you NOT
use the term "data."  Very sensitive.  Since most of you want visual
pictures to look at rather than analyse, say you want it in digital
form/format.  You will only hurt your case if you specifically say "data."
The bottom line is that you have the get the laws changed.

NASA is a public agency.  But I doubt you will get many PIs responding
to your discussion: 1) you all sound far too hostile (a bit self-righteous,
etc.), and 2) most don't have time to read the net, but this might change
in time.  The Year lag was a controversial thing when it was instituted.
Some people wanted THEIR data FOREVER.  Note, BTW that JPL is part of
Caltech (The California Institute of Technology).  Tech has had its share
of people claiming possession of data, programs developed under public
money, etc.  Just look in Science about a dispute called "SMP."

I don't think the dispute is with the person building the instrument.
It's the person who proposes the experiment.  They do make an investment.
One doesn't black ball a person who scoops another person for the latter's
data.  Time and history have shown this.  The only thing important is
the discover indepedent (to degrees) of the personalities involved.
I'm not trying to defend PIs, but what I am trying to illustrate is that
you are trying to move a very large rock (many of these people having
proposed and defended their projects for decades in some case) are not
likely to lend a sympathetic ear.

BUT, I suggest writing a few PIs (I make this suggestion in the spirit
a couple of years back when one Yeager made some comments about the
Voyager plane and I suggested and one good netter wrote Yeager and got a
reply).  Explain to them the situation as you and they see it and get
a response.  Emphasize the changing desires of the public for a more
electronic format.  BUT don't use "data."

--e.n. miya, NASA Ames Research Center, [e-mail]
  {uunet,mailrus,most gateways}!ames!eugene

------------------------------

Date: 10 Apr 90 19:35:29 GMT
From: uakari.primate.wisc.edu!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: HST Images (long)

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff Goldader) writes:
>So don't despair!  It might take a while, but within a year or so,
>I predict there'll be HST images adorning the popular astronomy
>magazines every month or two, and lots appearing in general science
>magazines you can buy at the newsstand.

So what?  The word, in case you've forgotten, is "digital".  Glossy photos
we *know* NASA will release.
--
With features like this,      |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
who needs bugs?               | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 10 Apr 90 18:23:19 GMT
From: snorkelwacker!spdcc!ima!haddock![e-mail]  (overhead)
Subject: Re: HST Images (long)

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff Goldader) writes:
>I understand why everyone wants these images!  I heard a neat idea
>quite a while ago (on the net, I think) that a few images be turned
>over to the networks every day and shown at the end of the evening news
>or something.  Being an observational-type myself, I certainly would
>like that.

Lots of people would.  We don't want more than that, either.  It
would be too much like work.  In fact, a few images a week would
probably suffice.

>Now, put yourself in the position of someone who wrote a proposal
>to observe one..  Someone gets your data maybe even before you do!
>Somehow, this person spreads the news
>faster than you, and gets credit for the discovery; you're stuck.

We're really just looking for flashy publicity shots.
It would be nice to have the original data, with all
the resolution possible.  If someone frame grabs off of
TV, or digitizes a magazine, there will be losage.
Resolution can't be added back when lost.

Some of the uses:
    make it available in various formats:
        75 dpi halftone
        75 dpi halftone - 8 colors
        300 dpi halftone (eg: postscript)
        regular Mac sized Macpaint (backdrop)
        Mac II sized grey or color backdrop
        TIFF, GIF, PICT, Xbitmap, etc.
    develop or distribute a viewer with zoom and pan features

>Also, let me point out that the Wide Field/Planetary Camera images are 8
>800x800 CCD fields, and at, say, 16 bits per pixel for decent dynamic
>range, would take up 10 megabytes of disk space.  Do many of you have
>room for storing lots of these images?  I doubt it.

I only need room for one uncompressed version at a time.  10 MB
is no big deal.  Either of my home computers that kind of space.
I've worked with ~1 megabyte images on my Mac at home.  At work,
I have access to larger machines, more CPU cycles.  We're
starting to see workstations with over 10 MB RAM.  My workstation
has 9 MB RAM.

Stephen.
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 10 Apr 90 19:00:07 GMT
From: pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!venera.isi.edu![e-mail]  (Craig E. Ward)
Subject: Re: Velikovsky's Theory

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Henk van der Griendt) writes:
>
>I am interested too to hear from the scientist about Velikovsky's
>theories.
>I know in the past most scientists simply did not like him and did not
>want to take his theories serious.

In a couple his books, Carl Sagan has addressed Velikovsky's theories.
Sagan's attitude is that it helps to de-mystify science when scientists
explain why pseudo- and just plan bad science is pseudo and just plan bad.
His book _Broca's Brain_ contains a chapter on Velikovsky.

Sagan, Carl. _Cosmos_. New York: Random House. 1980.
Sagan, Carl. _Broca's Brain: Reflections on the Romance of Science_. New
York: Ballantine Books. 1979.

For those of you who do not know, Carl Sagan is a Professor of Astronomy at
Cornell University (or at least was in 1980).
--
Craig E. Ward <[e-mail]>     Slogan:    "nemo me impune lacessit"
USPS:    USC/Information Sciences Institute
    4676 Admiralty Way, Suite 1100
    Marina del Rey, CA 90292

------------------------------

Date: 10 Apr 90 20:04:49 GMT
From: concertina![e-mail]  (Steve Hix)
Subject: Re: orbit definitions

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Greg Rose) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Neff) writes:
> >[ Talking about nonzero inclination geosynch orbits, so that the ground
> >track is a figure 8 centered on the equator ]
>
> I don't know if the figure of eight has a name,

analemma

(The spelling doesn't look right...the name of the figure-8 track followed
by the sun on successive noons thoughout the year.)

------------
"Up the airey mountain, down the rushy glen,
   we daren't go a-hunting for fear of little men..."
('cause Fish and Game has taken to hiring axe-carrying dwarves)

------------------------------

Date: 10 Apr 90 17:09:56 GMT
From: pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy![e-mail]
Subject: Re: HST Images (long)

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Neff) writes:
> I think it would be enough for someone at JPL or Goddard to declare
> themselves a "clearinghouse" for such images, and to distribute simple
> instructions to investigators on how to submit images...

I was asked to cross post this from sci.astro, where a similar thread
is smoking away..

All these complaints about "NASA" and "they" being so uncooperative and not at
all interested in passing out samples of the pictures are missing one vital
little point...

NASA is a big organization, did you ever stop to think you were talking to the
wrong people?

Individual NASA installations are not in the business of distributing archival
data.  There is one branch set up just for that task:

       *** The National Space Science Data Center (NSSDC) ***

The NSSDC is the official clearinghouse for all NASA data.  They even have
Voyager data on CD-ROMs.  Soon, June 1990, their master directories will be on
Internet (they are already on SPAN).  Bulk data distribution by network (and
modem, WORM, 9-track tape, CD-ROM) are all expected to be in place by that
date (just quoting the June 1989 NSSDC Newsletter).

Now, this is not to say that you'll get what you want.  Please be sensitive to
the fact that this branch of NASA is really strapped for human resources. I
doubt we'll see a pretty picture archive open soon, as they are barely able to
keep up with the present data flow.  When HST gets running full tilt, it will
produce about a Terabyte per month of data.  GRO is ready to launch soon as
well, adding to the flood.  If (and when) EOS gets rolling, that's even more
data.  NASA is not hiring big right now, in fact they're in a hiring cutback
for the most part.

If some third party - an organization - were to offer to do the dirty work and
act as a distribution point for pretty pictures (that is, get the data from
NSSDC with all the "thou shalt not market, nor turn a buck thereby" agreements
on paper) to an interested network, that might get a better reception than
bitter "we paid for it with our hard earned tax dollars so fork over"
missives.  It is also a more realistic suggestion, as the third party would be
the ones to wade through all the plasma science frames and get the best
pictures into all those half dozen or so wonderful formats that are running
around.  From NSSDC you get FITS format.  Period.

PR folk are the last people to be talking to about this sort of thing.  They
are usually (sadly) largely ignorant of fine mechanical details.  You don't
ask them how the photolab does the color balancing, right?  They deal in
finished products.  They also probably don't know what the NSSDC is anyway,
but they really should.  Like I said, big organization...

Want More?

      National Space Science Data Center
      Code 633
      NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
      Greenbelt, MD  20771

Requests for data are to be addressed to:

      NSSDC/Code 633.4
      NASA Goddard etc.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Richard Pogge         |  Internet: [e-mail]
Dept. of Astronomy    |  Bitnet:   pogge@ohstpy
Ohio State University |  Snail:    Columbus, OH  43210
-----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 11 Apr 90 02:36:30 GMT
From: cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!csri.toronto.edu![e-mail]  (Wayne Hayes)
Subject: Re: Galileo Update - 04/10/90

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Ron Baalke) writes:
>The maneuver, which will slow the spacecraft by 24.8 meters per
>second or about 55 mph, will be carried out in four daily
>portions, each lasting more than 6 1/2 hours.  The spinning
>spacecraft will deliver tiny pulses from its lateral thrusters
>each time one of them is pointed in the right direction.  In the
>four days, this comes to almost 6400 pulses.

This seems like a rather large maneuver.  Was it planned beforehand because
we didn't have a choice on this particular path, or did they suddenly
realize that they missed something and are now correcting for somebody's
big faux-pas?

    It just seems unlikely that people that can have Voyager II arrive
at Neptune only 4 minutes ahead of schedule and a few tens of km off
target after > 12 years of travelling would make such a big boo-boo
so soon into such a routine cruise.  And such a waste of fuel.

--
"C is a language that provides you plenty of rope.  You will likely end up
getting seriously tangled in it if you're not careful." -- CSRI C intro.

Wayne Hayes    INTERNET: [e-mail]    CompuServe: 72401,3525

------------------------------

Date: 9 Apr 90 18:06:08 GMT
From: att!tsdiag![e-mail]  (Dave Tiller N2KAU)
Subject: Re: "Brilliant Pebbles" vs. "Smart Rocks" (was Re: Railgun ...)

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Neff) writes:
-Let's go the other way:
-
-    Bumbling Boulders
-    Mediocre Menhirs
-    Oafish Outcroppings
-    Muleheaded Mountains
-    Stupid Subcontinents
-    Pinheaded Planetesimals
-    Addled Asteroids
-    Prattling Planets
-    Stupid Stellar-mass Singularities
-    Cretinous Collapsars
-    Numbskulled Neutron-stars
-    Quaaluded Quasars
-    Unteachable Universes
-    Brainless Big Bangs
-    Catatonic Cosmoses
-

You forget the simplest of all, "Dumb Dirt."
--
David E. Tiller         [e-mail]  | Concurrent Computer Corp.
FAX:  [phone]      Ph: [phone] (w) | 2 Crescent Place, M/S 117
UUCP: ucbvax!rutgers!petsd!tsdiag!davet        | Oceanport NJ, 07757
ICBM: 40 16' 52" N      73 59' 00" W           | N2KAU @ NN2Z

------------------------------

Date: 10 Apr 90 07:26:52 GMT
From: uhccux![e-mail]  (Richard Bishop)
Subject: Apollo Astronauts


I am working on a book about the Apollo Program and would be interested
in any information concerning the activites of the astronauts who have
left NASA after the Program.  This is in reference to the news that Ron
Evans of Apollo 17 died last Saturday.  I would like to fill in the
histories of the men after life at NASA.

Also, if anyone has any anecdotes or tidbits or other info they'd like
to offer, I'd be interested in hearing from you.

------------------------------

Date: 10 Apr 90 03:26:45 GMT
From: bfmny0![e-mail]  (Tom Neff)
Subject: Re: HST Images (long)

Jeff Goldader makes some valid points but in a moot cause.  I don't
think anybody is advocating taking all raw incoming HST data and
placing it immediately in a public directory.  Investigator privacy
and network volume militate against it -- and people do understand.

What makes more sense is for a (relatively) tiny SELECTION of images of
public interest to be made available in a REASONABLY timely fashion via
anonymous FTP from some cooperative site.  (Compression will cut those
10MB images way down, by the way.  I like that 'quadtree' system posted
recently.)

I think it would be enough for someone at JPL or Goddard to declare
themselves a "clearinghouse" for such images, and to distribute simple
instructions to investigators on how to submit images.  These
instructions could be passed on by STSI to anyone who uses the
observatory.  That way you would only get what people *want* you to get,
and perhaps also benefit from whatever post processing enhancements a
lab has applied.

Just a thought.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V11 #248
*******************